Creatine
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Where to start? Creatine and muscle cramps, muscle tears, torn biceps and hamstring pulls. So many questions, so little answers. But it seems that we have many opinions. I'm a nutritional adviser here in the San Diego, CA area. I have studied the nutritional habits of athletes for a real long time. This is what I have observed from them. This is a short version, and it is my own.
Athletes that use creatine, especially Creatine Monohydrate, seem to all have some common problems. These problems are related to their bodies lack of calcium absorption or the depletion there of. Most of the minor problems of taking creatine have to do with things like muscle cramps. Anyone who knows anything about nutrition will tell you that muscle cramping is caused by a mineral deficiency, calcium.
So, how does this happen? In order for the body to use creatine it has to be phosphated. Creatine monohydrate gets converted to creatine phosphate by utilizing the bodies stores of phosphorus. Now, when you use up all the phosphorus in the body you can't hold on to the bone structure, (weak bones). It also contributes to calcium deficiencies. Calcium is needed for muscle contractions! IF YOU DON'T HAVE CALCIUM BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE PHOSPHORUS IN THE MUSCLE, YOU CAN'T HAVE MUSCLE MOVEMENTS. YOU WILL HAVE CRAMPING, YOU WILL TARE, YOU WILL RIP AND YOU COULD DO SERIOUS DAMAGE TO TENDONS AND LIGAMENTS.
If you are a BODY Builder, and you don't make any fast movements, you might be OK for awhile. It's the long term effect it has on your bone structure that you should be aware of. If you are an athlete, and you do any kind of sport where you may have to make any sudden movements, YOU SHOULD TAKE A LONG!.....HARD!....LOOK! at this stuff.
Creatine in its many forms....will build muscle! But at what price. Can you say that after one year, two years, five years or ten years down the line that your body will be better for it.
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I didn't know that creatine caused calcium depletion, but I read that heavily protein based diets (supplementation) will do exactly that. A certain Dr. Macdougall had a chart of how much calcium should be taken daily depending on one's protein intake. Since whey proteins goes hand in hand with creatine for many bodybuilders, one can only advocate massive does of calcium in the range of at least 2000 mg daily.
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| Hey, I was just reading your topic above, and you say that Creatine destroys the calcium in your bones after a long period of time. I'm a 17 year old male that works out everyday and my brothers have taken Creatine, but I've decided to do a bit more research to make sure I don't harm myself now or later in life.
I was just wondering, because I drink a lot of milk in the first place, if I were to do something as simple as drink Creatine with milk...or continue to drink Milk as I do now...will that help in any way??? I want to take Creatine, but I don't want to risk any damage in any way...now or later! I was just wondering if you could give me any suggestions or any information regarding avoiding harm??
Brian
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The theory of calcium depletion causing cramping sounds good, but do you have any evidence of this being the case? Studies?
A much more logical explanation of muscle cramping is the osmotic pull that regular creatine monohydrate has within the body. The human body can only absorb about 35% of creatine monohydrate that is swallowed. Because of this, the other 65% sits in your gut trying to be dissolved and absorbed. Water, up to two quarts, can then be drawn into the gut in an attempt to break down the creatine in order to make it soluble, which it cannot.
Obviously, dehydration will result from this, and dehydrated muscles will many times cramp, especially during strenuous exercise and short, high energy bursts. In addition, diarrhea and headaches will also many times result from the osmotic pull of creatine monohydrate, which is caused by poor absorption.
I have two words for anyone suffering from these side effects: Creatine Edge.
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My experience with creatine is very bad. My left calf got severely torn by cramping during workout.
K.S.
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This is a well-written review that shows the positives and negatives of a choice. I think that it is important to tell people that the only way creatine will work for a person is if they completely use up all of their natural energy resources (ATP). So if you are reading this and thinking about using creatine the question is: Do you work out until you are tired? If yes, NO CREATINE! You need to be working out until you (literally) can't walk, and every set is until muscle failure for creatine to be effective. Otherwise you have expensive urine and bad bones.
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What if I told you that creatine slowly turns you into a dragon? What a bunch of hot air here! Are ALL cramps caused by mineral deficiency? All cramps? Give me a break. Let's suppose that creatine does cause calcium to become depleted - solution: supplement with more calcium for safety's sake. Of all the studies on creatine, and believe me, there are MANY, not one has made a link between creatine use and weak bones. Show me the study!
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I'm now 17 and have been taking creatine for a year now and I got to tell you how amazed I am about all this load of B.S. Creatine does NOT cause health problems and does NOT cause side effects. It works real well. If you are getting side effects then let me say to you, you may not be getting the real thing! There are plenty of false creatines out there from fly-by night operations just to so a certain company can get money. If you want real creatine that works and causes no side effects take EAS Phosphagen HP. I take this and highly recommend it. This is the real creatine. So enough of the B.S. that creatine causes long-term effects or short because that is simply not true. It works great!
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I've read a few people talk about getting "bad bones"
from taking creatine. Well people use your head. Did anyone know
that working out with weights is actually good for your bones and
makes them more dense and strong? Well it's true. And if your so
worried about not getting enough calcium, then take extra in the
form of a supplement. You should be getting plenty from your diet.
If you're not then go fine tune your diet first, before taking creatine
or any other supplement for that matter because supplements are
just that! Supplements to you diet! The fact is most people who
get cramps and pulls while on creatine, is they're not getting enough
water. You must drink a lot of water while on it. And to another
person who said creatine does not cause long term effects, how do
you know? Have you used creatine for 20 plus years? No because you've
only been around for 17.Use your head, we probably won't know what,
if any, long term effects creatine and all the new supplements will
have for years to come.
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I just read this and I am amazed by this information. I began taking Creatine about 2 months ago. I have extremely worn cartilage in my knees (I am a 17 year old female athlete) and I thought that the creatine could help build up my quads and take some of the stress off of my knees. Ever since taking Creatine, my muscles are constantly cramping up, and my joints are more painful than usual. I get barely any calcium outside of supplements already (because I am a vegan) and I did not realize that creatine was contributing to my problem, not solving it. I have stopped taking creatine, but I still cramp up, and my joints are still painful and crack a lot. Any suggestions? Thanx.
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To the vegan: maybe you should stop being a vegan. Your body needs every advantage (vitamins, minerals, calcium etc. etc.) it can possibly get when it is being stressed, like it is during serious training. You can't expect your body to perform when it is deprived.
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I have been taking creatine for some time now and it has worked wonders. I was up to benching 380. I am a senior in high school and I was going to play football this year, but I could not because my bones were to weak from taking creatine and my lack of calcium. I have now stopped taking creatine and I have lost a considerable amount of weight so now I am down to 325 bench max. In the long run, if you do not handle your body's calcium needs while taking creatine, then it is not worth taking it.
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I found creatine to be the best product out there for muscle building in a short period of time. There's no bad substances in it that may harm you and I found it to be more healthy than anything else.
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I have taken this substance in the past. I had tremendous gains. I do believe it does cause muscle tears. I have suffered two pec tears within the past 5 years. One on both pecs. Since I have quit, I have not had a reoccurrence.
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I'm researching creatine side effects for an article for an arm wrestling magazine. Lately, several arm wrestlers I know have torn biceps during competition. All of them use creatine. I didn't want to believe it could be the creatine, but after reading these, I have begun to wonder. This is the first I've heard about depleted calcium caused by creatine. My first thought was that it was probably dehydration from lack of water while taking creatine. Any more info. anyone has on the calcium depletion would be appreciated.
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| I had a good chuckle throughout this thread, especially at response #7, the all-knowing 17 year old. What really goes to show what you know is the brand of creatine you are using, EAS creatine phosphate??? Give me a break bro, use creatine monohydrate. It is the only creatine proven to work.
For the football player who had bone problems, sorry to hear about that bro. Had my tibia broken playing football my junior year first practice in a freak accident, missed entire season needless to say (that might have been from drinking too much beer though:), alcohol hurts bone density, something to keep in mind for any of you contact sports athletes). But I'm not sure if creatine did that to you. You haven't been taking creatine long enough for that to happen in my opinion.
I jumped on the creatine bandwagon in 93 when it first came out.
Have been using it ever since. I'm a serious bodybuilder and I
can tell you that I have seen no bad side effects since using
creatine, and it greatly increases my gains when used properly.
It is a product I would recommend, and if done right should cause
no problem.
I'm not sure about what any studies have shown about it causing
a lack of calcium or other minerals in your muscles or what not.
I just know as with any kind of weight lifter, the most important
thing is nutrition. Before even working out, you need to eat right.
That means getting MORE than enough calcium, protein, vitamin
c, carbs and all other minerals and amino acids. Once you do that,
you should have no problem using things like creatine (if you
know what you are doing and are at least 20 years of age). After
that, work out hard and get enough sleep and drink at least a
gallon of water a day and you should be well on your way to a
a great body or improved athletic performance, whatever your goal
is.
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In response to #15's comment about EAS Phosphagen--PHOSPHAGEN IS CREATINE MONOHYDRATE!!! Word of mouth is a good way to get a lot of feedback, but not always the best way to get credible feedback. Ask people who have taken it for at least a year. Always drink lots of water. This is not to flush creatine out of the gut, but because you need water in the cells to be broken down and converted to be used as a form of energy. This is all creatine really does anyway...give you an extra source of energy. Anyone that really wants to know what creatine is and what it does, find a textbook from an advanced anatomy and physiology class. There are plenty of websites and libraries that you could find a book like that. READ ALL YOU CAN FROM EDUCATORS, SCIENTISTS, TOXICOLOGISTS, ETC!
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The way to get rid of cramps and tears is to stop them before they start. Drink 1 gallon of water every day when on creatine! And a GNC worker said I should take creatine. I'm 15. Why would she tell me this if it was so harmful. I don't think she would do that.
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What the hell is this about? I've been taking creatine since summer 1995. I love it. I have had no problems ever. I was injury prone in my football days, but I have discovered no negative effect of aggravation due to creatine. I think that both sides are exaggerated: creatine's benefits by some people, and the dangers as well.
If I don't get enough calcium from 3 food meals, plus 3 or 4 Met-Rx shakes per day (that's 6 cups of milk right there) - then I deserve weak bones! My bones must be like bricks. I get more calcium than King Kong. I don't think bodybuilders need to worry about this since they eat so much & supplement well. Athletes who restrict food and train differently, maybe it is something they need to know. But like some others said - where are the studies and proven research of these ideas?
P.S. If you don't want your creatine, send it to me.
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Here's some advice that can be applied to the use of any supplement. You have to change your eating habits for safety reasons. When I started taking creatine, my water intake went up 4 fold and I suspect that's why I had no problems. Also, about the idea of creatine not dissolving in the stomach (response #3), that's garbage. I'm a chemist by trade and I've worked on creatine. The acidic environment in the stomach alone is enough to dissolve creatine, aside from the fact that the temperature in the stomach is elevated enough above room temperature to further the reaction rate another at least 2 times. It is best to dissolve creatine in grapefruit juice before hand anyway. This requires some heating and agitation (hmm, kind of like what happens in the stomach, only not as acidic). The makers of creatine monohydrate are not at fault. The onus is on users to take it properly.
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So, if I read all of the responses and the original article correctly, I should drink plenty of water and be sure to take a supplement with enough phosphorus and calcium in it. Also, it sounds like it should not be used constantly, and that I should take periodic breaks from using it. Is that about right?
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Let me ask you all this. Do you know who the father of creatine
is? If so, you also know that creatine was used by the Russians
the year they kicked everyone's butts in the Olympics. Yes, creatine
is safe. Nikolai Volkov (Russian) is the father of creatine . He
is the Professor and Chair of the Department of Biochemistry at
the Moscow Institute of Physical Education researcher in the areas
of Muscular Activity, and a consultant to the Russian Olympic Teams.
He uses every measure imaginable to insure that creatine is safe.
Creatine monohydrate is an energy maximizing ingredient. It is safe,
and if there is a study out there that says it's not, show me. Better
yet, convince me that Olympic athletes could indulge or would indulge
in anything that would interfere with their performance before,
during or after. Then I'll take it to my friend Nikolai and ask
him personally.
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| Let me add a little history to response #21: Professor Nikolai Volkov, head of the Soviet Olympic nutrition research program, originally discovered the value of creatine supplementation in 1961. Dr. Volkov developed and supervised Olympic sports nutrition programs for 30 years, but his discovery of creatine supplementation was a closely guarded secret (now you know why we didn't see it until the 90's).
Creatine helps provide maximum energy to the muscle during intensive workouts. For example, during a weight-lifting workout, the first 20 seconds of intensive (anaerobic) physical activity can drain down most of the energy supply in the muscles. Creatine helps maintain the muscle energy supply for a longer time, so more weight-lifting can be done.
I have personally talked to Dr. Volkov and discussed this very subject via a translator (his daughter). Dr. Volkov assured me that "creatine is safe if taken in the proper dosage." The effect of overdose? "Overdose can lead to internal organ damage" and calcium depletion should not occur if you are properly supplementing your diet. I'll take 40 years of science and experience feeding world class athletes nutritional supplements over inexperience any day.
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I took creatine when I was 15. I worked out every day intensely when on it. I have noticed pretty good gains, but I had severe stomach pains and muscle cramps and have quit using it because of all the bad things it does to you. I don't care if there is not enough "scientific" proof this stuff is bad for you. I know. I was only 15, but I only took half of the recommended dosage. My advice is don't use it! If you are using it right now, stop and flush it down the toilet as quick as you can. But hey, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. If you want to use it, use it. But don't cry later because of it.
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| I have to concur with response numbers 19 and 16. I had my doubts before I started taking creatine, and I am happy I researched it; I have had great results with it. The bottom line is drink enough water. I work 2 jobs, in an office and in a restaurant. In both places, I have a one-liter bottle with me that is constantly filled with water. I drink about a gallon to 1 1/2 gallons a day. Don't get me wrong...I piss like a racehorse and at times it gets bothersome. But I know I am doing the right thing by drinking enough water.
If you put a lot of beer, hard liquor, sodas, etc. into your body and do NOT drink enough water (as most of my college-age peers do on a regular basis), then you are going to cramp and hurt yourself. I drink water 99% of the time. I honestly don't enjoy drinking sugary drinks (sodas, iced teas, etc.) and alcohol anymore--even at a bar or club (besides, the last thing I want to do there is meet some hot chick and be a stupid drunk).
If you practice a balanced diet, drink enough water, and be sure to get 100% of your daily vitamins and minerals (which is easily done with one or two meal replacement powders in addition to 4-5 regular meals), get adequate (about 7-8 hours) rest, you should be fine to take creatine. Just don't try to push it too much--let your bones and muscles adapt to the "boost" you give it when you take creatine. If you "push it" too much, it's great for the ego but hell on your body. Then you can and will fu–– yourself up. I welcome all comments and opinions.
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People, people...creatine does not cause muscle tears. Inflexibility and an overload of stress that your muscles can't handle causes muscle tears. I played Division 1 football and saw many muscle tears. Creatine wasn't even available. Arm wrestling has always been a great source of income for doctors, as it has for years been a prime place to tear a bicep or pec. Now creatine is the culprit? I don't think so. Hydrate and stretch fellas, hydrate and stretch.
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| THIS IS BLATANT PSEUDO-SCIENCE. The author might call himself an advisor, but he is definitely not an informed person. In my opinion, he's an average IQ or less conformist type (what are his credentials).
FIRST, he mentions that creatine users are prone to problems and then goes on to say they are related to calcium deficiency.
A) Calcium deficiency has NEVER been shown to predispose towards muscle tears (muscle weakness perhaps).
B) Creatine users have normal blood tests including calcium (there is NOT ONE REPORT OF HYPOCALCEMIA related to creatine use in the medical database MEDLINE.
C) Phosphorus does not leak out of bones like the author would lead one to believe. The injuries mentioned are likely to be related to many factors since there is presently no causal mechanism established.
But you have to remember these important things:
1) CREATINE WORKS FOR STRENGTH but might slow you down if you run or swim at high levels (Clinical Journal of Sport Medicine. 8(4):286-97, 1998 Oct.). This report was based on 67 studies and had to be accepted by a panel of experts before being published. If your muscles get stronger, you'll be handling bigger weights, performing at a higher level and consequently submitting to greater risk of injury. Athletes get hurt all the time. That's why their is such an important medical industry around sports.
2) You want info on SIDE EFFECTS, consult your local hospital library for: Potential Side Effects of Oral Creatine Supplementation: A Critical Review (Clinical Journal of Sport Medicine. 8(4):298-304, 1998 Oct.). This one was based on 68 scientific articles. This article mentions no muscle tear or cramping, only water retention and therefore a possible reduction in speed.
Many minerals can cause muscle cramping if their levels are low (why jump on calcium). If a diet factor was to cause Ca deficiency, it would be much more likely to be the high animal protein consumption of strength athletes. Rest assured, it is usually not a problem. Have cheese or yogurt every day if you don't drink milk. By the way, the CORRECT term for the addition of a phosphate is not phosphated but PHOSPHORYLATED.
Neuroticism is characterized by a tendency to see impending doom everywhere and to perpetually scan out the environment and food to avoid possible health threats. Their is a tendency to approach novelty with apprehension. If you base your judgment on your emotions such as fear and/or jealousy (the latter being common to the obsessive/compulsive neurotics), you can expect to end up with opinions based on EMOTIONAL STATE rather than FACTS.
A true scientist leaves his feelings outside his methods and conclusions and follows objective results. I have obtained psychology and physiology degrees. I will not describe them, but only mention it as to establish my perspective on this type of comment. If you want the facts, consult the research friends. See the Medline database. I have no personal interest in creatine, but reading this type of contribution on this quality site makes me realize the need for trustworthy authorities in this field. English is not my first language, please forgive my grammar/syntax.
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The insinuation that suggests creatine is itself responsible for the aforementioned evils and maladies is as reckless and irresponsible as it is unsubstantiated. I would suggest that in order to support your position, you draw from a consistent cross section of the fitness world. It is convenient to use isolated cases in order to distort a perception that feeds into a prejudiced opinion.
Were you not to conveniently have omitted fact, you would have pointed out that there is an obvious tradeoff that accompanies any increase in size, strength, and body weight, irrespective of the means taken to attain it. There are countless cases were developing young men encounter structural and muscular problems simply because their individual growth patterns exceed their own body's capacity to manage that rapid onset of development - a situation that is rectifiable once the body adjusts and adapts to this this pattern.
Your hypothesis is tantamount to concluding capital murderers use alcohol, therefore anyone who use alcohol is prone to commit capital murder. For every case you can produce where side effects were found, I can produce 10,000 cases where none were indicated. Secondly, did you do enough research to ascertain other compounds that these cases were taking in that might tend to distort the result? Did you consult an endocrinologist that would illustrate the function of creatine? Thirdly, did your conclusions account for the motivation of the person being interviewed?
We can use disinformation and selective data to support almost any stance. I can show you how an elephant can hang off the edge of a cliff with his tail tied to a daisy, and then back it up with physics. Just because a few trusted astronomers tell you the world is flat, and that monsters guard the edge before you fall off into the abyss, doesn't make it so.
I suggest you use evidence and facts to form an opinion, instead of using your opinion to prejudice the gathering of evidence and articulation of the facts.
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