Weight Training
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| Well, I've read all the tips from the so called experts who have written in, but what I'm wondering is how big these guys really are and how natural? I see people working out all the time and that is just what they're doing working out! Its a joke what I see most people doing. If you want to get big, you have to train! That is the only way to get real results. I speak from experience. I'm bigger than most people in the gym and I'm all natural. I've worked out for about 4 years now, 5 days a week and have always, so they tell me, over trained.
Here's the routine that will work for you if you can handle it:
Monday: shoulders and abs
Tuesday: back and abs
Wednesday: arms, biceps, triceps, and abs
Thursday: chest and abs
Friday: legs and abs
Switch it up every two weeks, but never work shoulders and chest right after each other because it's too hard on the shoulder joints. This will make you as big as your frame will allow, oh, and take a protein powder 4 times a day including your meals. One more thing, each work out is 1 hour 30 minutes long. He! He! Can you handle it? If so, you will watch yourself grow!!!
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| Could you be a bit more descriptive on your routine that supposedly works so great. Like specific exercises.
Thanks
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| Not to put your "over trained" routine down, but first, do you have a full time job or training is your full time job? Growth comes from brutal tearing up of muscle tissue then repairing (RESTING). If someone is always in the gym, when do they repair and grow? Your training routine is unique for your own body. It is not advisable for others to follow.
Training 4 times a week covering the entire body will be a basic guideline to derive from. It is good to train shoulder after chest, since your shoulder is already warmed up after chest routines. This way you can train with safer weight and feel the same intensity (PRE EXHAUST PRINCIPLE). Also, if the abs are trained correctly with high intensity, 2 to 3 times a week is plenty.
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My routine is almost identical and has worked great:
Monday: Shoulders
Tuesday: Arms (biceps, triceps, and forearms)
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Legs
Friday: Chest
Saturday: Back
Sunday: Rest
I find that splitting up the rest days allows for better recovery. In the above program you are working back one day and then arms the next. Most back exercises work the arms out as well and then you'll find yourself working out with sore arms the next say and not lifting your maximum weight.
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| I have been working out for 4 natural years, weigh 192, have 17" arms, and am 6'1". I use a routine similar to the above, except only train abs once a week, do five sets and three exercises per muscle and have had positive results. Once you have trained this long you tend to learn many different exercises and when someone says they train chest this day and arms that day, you don't have to ask what the routine is. You also tend to notice that the lingo does go from working out to training. Training is the ultimate goal.
P.S. I feel that you can work your shoulders out the day before or after a chest workout, but you can't get a truly beneficial chest workout if you do them the same day. Also remember that when someone posts their training regimen for others to read, they are trying to be helpful, so don't criticize.
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This is a good work out plan but it lacks a thing called restoration. When you tear down your muscle you have to give it time to repair itself. I use a plan like yours and I'm growing quite steadily. My plan is like this:
Monday: tri's and bi's then shoulders (military push press)
Tuesday: power clean and abs
Wednesday: bench and inclined bench
Thursday: rest
Friday: squats and leg press
Sat: tri's and bi's shoulders
Sun: rest
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I am the head personal trainer for Gold's gym of El Paso. Everybody has a way to grow or a way to lose weight. The problem is that everyone is different. Do you think that I would train an 18 year old male the same as a 26 year old male? No way! You have to take advantage of their testosterone levels and the metabolic rates. Everybody must create a customized plan to suit their wants and their bodies.
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| Since everyone is unique, they have to find what training/rest interval works best for them based on their goal (power, endurance, sculpting,etc) On Mon, Wed, Fri, I work the entire upper body - back, chest, biceps, triceps, shoulders, abs. I do one set of 2-3 different exercises per muscle group. The next session, I do different exercises for each muscle group. I'll vary the reps/weight; the speed; concentrate on negatives; hold the position for a few to several seconds - just keep mixing it up. It obviously works for me; I continue to put on muscle weight; keep increasing my endurance,and people in the gym tell me that I have definition in places that they don't see in others (comes from mixing it up!)
On Tue, Thu, Sat, I run, climb, hike, bicycle, any way to use the legs and get aerobic, weather allowing. If in the gym, I use the various aerobic equipment that uses the legs, again mixing it up with the machines, speed, resistance. After my legs have got good workout, I do leg presses on the various machines (can't do squats, my lower back can't take it; would if I could), then an upper and lower calf exercise, again mixing it up each session. In stretching, what's worked for me is to warm, then stretch a little before the workout, stretch each muscle group, fully, after working them; then do a routine of yoga stretching to finish the day.
Geno
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| I have done a lot of research on weight lifting and muscle gains. What I have found is that the human body can build muscle mass and strength from doing a low rep, high weight, limited sets work out. The average human body will repair and build in three to four days. The muscle building coming on the last day. If the muscle that is repairing is over stimulated prior to the time frame, then growth and repair will be hindered.
When I researched this topic, I did more web surfing on medical sites than weight lifting sites. Why? Most medical sites (but not all) tell the truth and explain how the human body works. At the same time, I have found many weight training sites to be filled with falsehoods. It is true that everyone is different. But most people, even those of you that are huge, spend more time in the gym then needed. Such long and intense workouts also hurt the body's ability to fight of infection. My research has indicated that two to three hard sets with a three to four day rest period is enough to build muscle mass and strength. Not to mention, a balanced diet with an increased protein intake. But the diet is another matter and I will not bore anyone any longer.
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You are absolutely correct in saying that you are over training. Muscle growth does not come from spending an hour and a half at the gym. I think that you are caught up with the volume of your workouts rather than the intensity and quality. You need to shock the muscles to further growth by keeping them confused. And who told you never train shoulders with chest. As an example, press behind the neck, bent over rows, incline presses, upright rows...all of the above done with a wide grip.
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| I would like to agree with response 3. That's identical to my workout on the ideal week. However, with most weeks being what they are, I tend to end up doing the push-pull 3 day workout. I train all pull muscles one day, the push muscles a couple days later and the legs a couple days after that. All intermingled in there is rest and cardio. But I believe that the hour and a half workout is quite sufficient. I am up to 230 lbs. at 6'5 and am going strong.
Although you may have "researched" #8, you haven't been in the gym. You can watch those "idiots" lift lower reps and heavier weights, but you won't see them get any bigger. Push yourself to kick out the reps, you'll sure feel it, but that's good.
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It's all genetics! My cousin is like you, one of the biggest people in the gym and he uses a routine similar to the one you described. People (including myself) always tell him that he over trains because he does too many sets and too much weight, but he has grown nonetheless. I tried his routine for almost a year, expecting to make similar gains as he had. But instead, I found myself ALWAYS sore as hell and gained almost NO STRENGTH/MASS at all!
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Muscle growth and development occurs during rest. I think many of you people who are spending all the time in the gym are there to do more socializing then anything else.
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This is in regard to response #12. I think that you are very wrong and should put those words in another place. You probably don't even go training because you're too damn lazy!
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I have to agree with Response #13. The only people I hear complain are the ones who are to lazy to train hard. A lot of people go to the gym to train hard and not socialize. As for the poster's mention of 1.5 hour training sessions, mine are 3 hours, 4 times a week. Yes, I have no life...he he.
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A split system like yours is a great way to increase size and strength, and you might be making good progress, but for the average bodybuilder this workout might be too long. If Dorian Yates only spends 45 minutes in the gym, then why should I be in there for an hour and a half? You grow outside the gym...not in it.
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In response to the first statement, "I'm bigger than most people in the gym..."
Good for you! But how big where you before you started working out? Some people, namely me, will never get HUGE. My bone structure and my metabolism have a way of keeping me from getting HUGE. I will never be the biggest one working out. No, I don't have time to eat 4000 calories a day. No, I don't have time to train 2 hours a day 6 days a week.
Tip for us smaller guys out there. I am 21, 5-9, 160 (I look much lighter), about 11% body fat. I have been lifting for 3 years now. I have had an average diet during this time (i.e. I eat like a regular guy). I take a little extra protein and I used to take creatine (which is another subject entirely). Since my senior year in high school (age 18) I have gained about 15 pounds of muscle. I have had about a 60% gain in the weight I lift--keep in mind, these gains have been over 3 years.
OK, here is the tip: Lift. Lift often. I see skinny guys at the gym on Mondays and Tuesdays and less on Wednesdays. At the end of the week I am lucky to see 1 guy my size. Skinny guys that want to get big come lift for a day or two and disappear. THIS IS A BAD THING. You want to get big? EAT AND LIFT. You want to get cut like I do? EAT SMART AND LIFT LOTS. Yes, I am a skinny guy giving advice. You say I don't have room to talk because I'm still skinny. I know what I am doing in the gym. I have never hurt myself. I look better every year. My progress is slow, yes. Like many, many skinny guys out there, I just do not have the TIME to make training my full time job.
BUT, skinny guys out there, YOU GOTTA BE CONSISTENT. Don't worry about that big huge bear that is curling what your bench max is. They don't care about you, you don't worry about them. TOO MANY PEOPLE are afraid to work out because they feel like a spotlight is on them when they go to the gym. FALSE. 90% of those that work out in a public setting are concerned with themselves.
HEY SKINNY GUYS. If you want to get big and/or cut, GO TO THE GYM, FIND OUT HOW TO LIFT RIGHT, EAT SMART, AND BE CONSISTENT. I lift one hour a day, 4 days a week at about 2 muscle groups a day. FIGURE OUT WHAT SUITS YOU. Do some research. Don't go lift without knowing the proper way to do a particular exercise. Skinny guys can really hurt themselves trying to pump up some ungodly weight the wrong way.
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I am by no means a monster, but I have trained naturally for 3-4
years. I'm 5'10", 220, 18 inch arms, 36 inch waist. I have
gained 50 pounds in my training career so far and consider myself
an advanced intermediate. I have read books and other publications
over the years, trained with many different people, and read many
contradicting views. Let me just say that there is no one perfect
training technique as Mike Mentzer claims.
To the guy in #15, have you ever trained with Dorian Yates? If not,
then you do not know for sure how long he trains during what part
of his contest or off-contest season.
Either way, it's not the time frame of your workout, but the number of sets per body part that counts. I have tried the HIT low rep crap that Mentzer advocates, and let me tell you it's complete bullsh––. It might work for someone, but like the rest of us bodybuilders with experience and gains, anyone of us will tell you that volume works best. I have gained 20 natural pounds (and great strength increases in everything) this year alone since I upped my volume to 15-18 sets per body part, and only training it once a week. Here's my split, which I recommend to EVERYONE who's stuck on making gains and wants to try something new:
Mon- Chest
Tue- Back
Wed-Shoulders, abs
Thur-Legs
Fri-Bi's
Sat-Tri's*
* I used to train both bi's and tri's on Friday alone, but ever since I increased my volume to 30 sets for large body parts and 25 for smaller ones, I dedicate a day to bi's and tri's respectively.
Also, every 3-4 weeks I change the exercises, vary the tempo of the reps, and occasionally I just come to the gym and do completely random sh––, go nuts, hitting every single exercise possible for the body part, going from one to another almost non stop, doing one set on each, and repeating the routine 3-4 times.
My point is, read the books, read the magazines, talk to people, but keep in mind that different people respond differently to training routines. I grow with volume, and pretty much all the experienced monsters in the gym rely on volume (yes, we do it high intensity too, every set to complete failure and beyond). Change your workout every 3-4 weeks. There's nothing worse than getting into the monotonous groove of being stuck with gains. Also, realize you can't gain forever. I gained 20 pounds this year and my body can't handle gaining any more right now. Instead, I noticed overall development of the shape of individual muscles lately with my Arnold super high volume training.
Another thing, my pet peeve is all these beginners who train hard
and complain about not being able to put on weight. I can't emphasize
enough the importance of FOOOOOOOOOOD! EAT YOU SKINNY PUKE! Eat
6-8 times a day, plenty of tuna, lean chicken/turkey, occasional
steak (health reasons). SKIM MILK is the god of all protein. If
you can't afford protein powders, by all means, gulp down half a
gallon of skim milk in a day and you'll get plenty of protein. Eat
about 3 hours apart, small 400-500 calorie meals. Eat first thing
in the morning, eat half an hour before you lift. Make sure to eat
right before bed or gulp down some protein right before bed because
this is when most growth takes place, in your sleep as your body
restores torn muscle, releases testosterone and growth hormone.
Ever woken up in the morning feeling huge? I have, many times. if
you get up in the middle of the night, gulp down some milk/water
and eat, eat, eat.
Train plenty. Overtraining occurs when you don't eat enough and
don't sleep enough so act accordingly. Don't be lazy, and pump out
good 15-20 sets for a body part in a workout and go home happy.
It's much better to completely kill a body part, doing it once a
week with sh--load of volume, than train a body part 2-3 times a
week (unless you're juicin') and train it half-ass.
If you're natural like me, don't listen to what the hell the pro's say. I mean listen, but realize what works for them won't necessarily work for you. One thing I noticed as I got bigger over the years, more and more people (big guys) show me respect and comment on my progress and lifts in the gym. I attribute my progress and size to staying informed and not being afraid to try many different things in order to realize what works for me, and also FOOD! Sorry for the long ass post, I've never posted to a bodybuilding board before, so I have a lot to say. Waiting for responses.
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| Ex SEAL here. If I can agree with anyone 100% on this page, it's got to be #17. Although eating, eating, eating has 100% truth to it, also be careful, like he said, about the red meat. It's good and high in protein but also high in other no-no's. For this problem, fight it with Alfalfa supplements. In addition to fighting the cholesterol level, it also is an appetite suppressor. HOW ABOUT THEM BANANAS! Speaking of bananas, have a couple before you go work out for cardiovascular. Also, swimming is very good for cardio and uses almost all muscles. The only set back is it elongates your muscles, making them more long than balled. Depends on how you wanna actually look I guess. But anyways...great suggestions there #17. My hat's off to ya!
I have to close out with, HOOOOOOOOYA NAVY SEAL! WANNA REAL WORK OUT GUYS? THINK YOU DA MAN OF THE WORLD? GOT SOMETHING TO PROVE? JOIN THE SEALS! WE'D LOVE TO SEE IF YOU GOT IT! I'm not knocking marines this time...gotta couple new friends that I like who are in...so I'll spare 'em this time!
CIAO!!
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Now, I don't believe in telling the next guy what to do, but I think that some of the proposed routines on this page are RIDICULOUS! Okay, I know that genetics has a great deal to do with how you pump up, and I will admit that I am definitely blessed in that department, but anyone can do it if they give their workout the right intensity! Most people that don't gain any rock hard weight may either not have the genetics for muscle building or they just don't take their workout seriously enough. They don't concentrate during their workout and they don't work hard enough to feel the muscle pump. My workout is incredibly simple. I know that I am not the biggest man in the world, but I am still working. When I started working out 9 months ago, I went to the gym and really started working. I mean that I do not even stop to talk to anyone. This is the same routine that I have used ever since I started, and I continue to make great gains in mass and strength.
I train every body part with one exercise (arms are the exception, but I will get to that in a sec), but with usually 3 sets per body part. I keep the reps between 6-8 so that I can gain mass and strength. I will admit that sometimes I get to 10 reps on the last set just to really torture that muscle. This can be really difficult both physically and mentally, so be careful.
I always lift as heavy as I can without getting hurt. I always start by intensely working my calves through the standing calf raises. Then I go to the leg press machine to work my thighs. After that, I do the bench press, then standing barbell presses. After that, I hit my back with the lat pulldown. Then I go straight to the arms. Since the muscles in the arms are some of the smallest muscles in the body, I use a total of 4 exercises. I do not go extremely heavy since the muscles have already been worked quite extensively with the other upper body exercises. First, for the biceps, I do regular dumbbell curls. Then I do overhead triceps extensions with a barbell. I go back to the biceps and do bicep barbell curls. Then I hit the triceps one more time with tricep pushdowns. I repeat this schedule 3 times a week!
HERE IS MY ROUTINE IN SHORT:
Monday:
Standing Calf Press = 3 sets of 16 reps (HEAVY)
Angled Leg Press = 3 sets of 8 reps (HEAVY)
Bench Press = 3 sets of 8 reps (HEAVY)
Standing Barbell Press = 3 sets of 8 reps (HEAVY)
Lat Pulldown(with close grip) = 3 sets of 8 reps (HEAVY)
Standing Dumbbell Curls = 3 sets of 10 reps (MEDIUM)
Standing Barbell Triceps Extensions = 3 sets of 10 reps (MEDIUM)
Standing Barbell Curl = 3 sets of 10 reps (MEDIUM)
Triceps Pushdowns = 3 sets of 10 reps (MEDIUM)
Tuesday: REST. STAY OUT OF THE GYM TOTALLY!
Wednesday: SAME AS MONDAY
Thursday: REST!! SAME AS TUESDAY
Friday: SAME AS MONDAY
Saturday & Sunday: IT IS THE WEEKEND. REST. YOU HAVE WORKED HARD ALL WEEK!
People that I know are amazed at my current size as opposed to
my old one of just 9 months ago. I use that schedule above constantly
and just can't get bored with it because of the changes that it
continues to have on my body. I am 6'0" and 230 rock hard
pounds of considerable muscle mass. I am totally opposed to playing
with my body's natural chemical levels. The risks outweigh the
benefits. I just eat well, get rest, and supplement 5 grams of
Creatine a day with plenty of water after every workout. On rest
days, I just take it at some point in the day. Since the body
digests powder a lot better than capsules, I open the capsules
and dump the contents into water and stir. For me, this really
helps. My body totally digests the contents of the capsules and
Creatine in capsule form is cheaper than pure powder. Opening
the capsules gives you the same benefit as pure powder. but saves
money.
I graduated high school 15 months ago, and now I look totally
different. I can run into people that I graduated with and sometimes
they do not even recognize me. That is how drastic the change
has been. I don't think that I have ever really been a slouch
by any means. When I graduated high school, I was a lean 200 pounds,
but I have now put on 30 pounds. I believe that this program could
work for anyone and there is no harm in trying it for a couple
of months. I now have 17 inch arms cold and 18 inch calves cold
with proportionate gains all around. And the best part is that
I actually look big and muscular. I now can bench a max of 400
pounds using this routine, and I hope that you see GREAT results
very soon.
P.S. By the way, #10 has no idea what he is talking about. I am living proof that the "idiots" lifting heavy with low reps MOST CERTAINLY do get bigger. I may not be the most ripped up weight lifter, but everyone that knows me definitely agrees that I do look very stout, muscular, and opposing. How do you think that power lifters get so huge with very little fat on them? They are some of the biggest people on the planet, and they are the strongest I might add!
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| You guys can think whatever you want, but I know about this stuff 'cause I've done it. I started out at 6 foot tall, 140 lbs...that's skinny! I worked out Mentzer-style (3 days per week, 1 set each body part to failure, 12-18 reps max, then increase weight) for 18 months. End results = 6 foot tall, 188 lbs. Yeah, I ate a lot, but I ate good. I'm not fat. I still consider myself skinny compared to the big guys in the gym. But, I've got lats, biceps, and a chest I didn't have before.
I'm a hard gainer and I tried all kinds of supplements and programs while going to the gym for over 3 years. I spent a lot of money and time on stuff I saw advertised in magazines and nothing worked. In fact, I actually lost weight and went down to 136 lbs while training on a well-known nationally-advertised "Hi-Intensity/Multiple-sets" weight training program...Cyber-you-know-who. I looked so bad that people saw me and thought I had AIDS. I felt bad too...always tired and worn. Now I feel strong and I don't catch colds or get sick anymore.
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